Flawthentic ME
Flawthentic ME
064: Teaching our Native Language to kids - Challenges and mom-guilt with Gurjeet Pattar and Ranbir Johal
Ever wondered how to teach your kids their native language (Punjabi) in an English-dominated environment? What if you could do it guilt-free?
In this episode, I sit down with the inspiring sisters Gurjeet Pattar and Ranbir Johal, co-founders of Punjabi Pathways.
We celebrate their dedication to teaching Punjabi to our kids and helping South Asian moms overcome mom-guilt and the societal pressures.
We talked about:
- Importance of teaching your native language to kids
- Struggles faced by most parents when it comes to teaching the native language?
- Letting go of mom-guilt and societal pressures in case your kids don't speak the language.
- How to make language learning fun and impactful
- The importance of positive reinforcement
Gurjeet and Ranbir’s insights are invaluable for any parent navigating the bilingual education journey.
You can connect with Punjabi Pathways on Instagram here.
Or visit their website at www.punjabipathways.com
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And I want to say to all the moms out there stop with that. That's a societal thing that they're putting on us. We need to stand up and say you know what? I'm doing the best I can.
Sunny Lamba:This is Flawthentic Me a self-love podcast for South Asian women, a place where we celebrate self-love even when we feel imperfect or flawed. A safe space where you can be raw, real and authentic. And here's your host, self-love and mindset coach, sunny Lamba. Well, hello everyone. Welcome back to our second episode after that huge break that I took during the summer. And guess what? In my second episode I decided to bring on a couple of guests with me. You're going to love, love, love this episode because we're going to share some things that actually some of you have talked to me about.
Sunny Lamba:And before I get into the details, let me introduce my two guests. It's the first time ever, by the way we have two guests on Plot Fantic Me. First of all, I have with me Gurjeet Patar. Gurjeet is an award-winning educator with over 23 years of experience teaching in elementary and high schools. She holds a Bachelor of Education from UBC and a Master's Degree in Education specializing in curriculum and instructions. Her Master's Action Research Project focused on equipping non-native Punjabi speakers in Punjabi language classrooms with the skills and confidence to speak Punjabi. I can't even imagine that, and this work has driven her committing to creating engaging and confidence-building lessons. Welcome to the podcast, gurjeet.
Gurjit:Tanvaad. I'm so excited to be here.
Sunny Lamba:And my second guest is actually the younger sister, Ranbir Johal. Ranbir received her PhD from UBC's Asian Studies Department. Her focus for doctoral research was intersectionality of caste and gender in South Asian performance traditions. She's currently teaching Punjabi language and literature, as well as South Asian courses in Kwantlen University and UBC. She's also a board member of the Punjabi Language Education Association. Ranbir is also a published creative writer in Punjabi and co-director of Rang Manch Punjabi Theatre. Welcome to the podcast, Ranbir Anwar thanks. So Ranbir and Gurjeet are the two sisters from Punjabi Pathways and before I even go anywhere, I want to start with you. You, Gurjeet. What is Punjabi Pathways?
Gurjit:Punjabi Pathways was created actually in 2020 in the room I'm sitting in right now it was COVID.
Gurjit:September and Renvir was building a house at the time and I just remember she had, she was living with us, you know, when you had your bubble. So her family was our bubble at the time. And I just remember she had, she was living with us, you know, when you had your bubble. So her family was our bubble at the time. And I'm sitting in my living room and all of a sudden she's like Can I borrow your office? I'm like, okay, and then I hear her singing and laughing in my office and I asked her later. I'm like what were you doing? And she said, oh, a bunch of friends.
Gurjit:And you know we're asking hey, it's COVID, do you mind doing a Zoom thing with our kids? We want them to learn a little bit more about Punjabi, and that's where the idea started. And it was like we noticed that when our own kids were younger that there was definitely a lack of Punjabi speaking classes. There were lots of Punjabi classes, but they seemed to focus on read and write and for us, we strongly believed as educators we were looking for something that taught the way we do in our own classrooms. We're both educators and when we know to get to kids, the lessons have to be engaging, inviting, you have to create a strong sense of class community and in order to get the kids to keep coming back, and we wanted the focus to be on speaking, because if you start with speaking, you know we notice our students then become engaged and then they want to learn to read and write later on.
Sunny Lamba:Yeah, what you said really resonates with me. So I have a 12-year-old boy and he does not speak Punjabi. He understands completely Punjabi and Hindi, both completely understands. In fact, mary Punjabi bought the goodie up and he understands. Sometimes I'm like, did you get what I said? And he's like, yeah, I'm like what does it mean? And he'll tell me. So even though, mary, here to Punjabi, he gets, he understands it, he doesn't speak.
Sunny Lamba:And the reason I'm sharing that and I'm going to talk a lot more about this is you just said something about reading and writing. So when he was like three, four, five years old, we were in Calgary. The only options when it came to Punjabi was the Punjabi classes in the Gurdwara, which meant a strict kind of environment and, like I'm not saying there was not play, but not as much. And there's a big emphasis on religion as well, not that I didn't want him to learn religion, but that kind of pushed him away. As he turned seven and eight, he's like I don't want to do it. So what you said, that in learning through play, and that's how we probably growing up, like everyone just in the house, spoke the language and we learned. So I want to go to you, ranbir, looks like you're the one who was the first that you know. Little starting plug thing that you were dancing and singing in this room, so tell me about that.
Ranbir Johal:Well, I tried to encourage my kids to speak Punjabi. We tried very, very hard to speak mostly Punjabi around them and I think maybe I put a bit too much pressure. Because I remember once, when my son was little, he told me about a nightmare he had and I said, oh, what was wrong? And he said, oh, the scary jack-o'-lantern was talking to me. And I asked what was he saying. And he said, oh, the scary jack-o'-lantern was talking to me. And I asked what was he saying. And he said, oh, it was saying Punjabi bowl. So I thought, okay, maybe I can step away a little bit and just come more naturally, as you're saying.
Ranbir Johal:But it's so hard for it to come naturally here in Canada because you're surrounded by English right On TV. Once they start going to preschool and then kindergarten and so on, it's just English all around, whereas if you're in Punjab or certain families in, even in you know, surrey, which is called the second Punjab sometimes. So even certain families, both the parents and grandparents and extended family, that's all they speak, that's all they spoke. That's how I grew up and how I learned my Punjabi and I'm sure how you learned your Punjabi. You were just surrounded by the Punjabi speakers and with our kids in our generation. Sometimes it's easier for us to say something in English to our spouses and to our children rather than saying it in Punjabi, so they're not exposed to it as much.
Ranbir Johal:And I know I tried to make it more fun with my sons. I had a puppet and I took him out and I said, hey, this is Blue Body. And I tried to have him speak Punjabi with them. Didn't work as well because of course, when you're teaching your own children, the kids are like I want to try it with a puppet, I want to do this, I want to do that, yeah. But then when these people some friends and acquaintances asked me to teach their children, I remembered that and I thought, okay, good chance to try again. And the Lubaji proved extremely popular amongst the younger students. And then we have youth classes for older kids and adult classes and it's just been a great journey teaching Punjabi in a variety of ways to a variety of learners Punjabi Pathways the name came from the idea that there's many paths to learning Punjabi.
Ranbir Johal:There's different people learning for different reasons. Maybe they're heritage speakers, maybe they want to learn to read and write, but others whose parents speak it, but they understand it, but they always respond in english. They want to improve their punjabi, uh. There's people who have uh married into punjabi families, um have punjabi friends and they want to learn uh. So we've tried to create packages and packages and sessions and resources that will appeal to all these different types of learners and so that they don't have to start with you know the same old. You know, oh, we try to start with conversation so that they can actually practice. They can go up to grandparents or people on the street and say how are you, how are you and so on, yeah.
Sunny Lamba:Okay, so I was talking your Instagram page earlier today and even yesterday because I know we were going to record this episode and I, by the way, I love Billupaji, so he's not just popular in younger kids 48 year old me loves Billupaji as well, and so I have a fun, fun question here. You're teaching Punjabi now and I understand. Both of you are born in Canada. I was born and raised in India, so for me it just was so easy Hindi, punjabi, both I can read, write everything Growing up. Did you, was it easier for you to learn Punjabi, or did you feel that pressure that your kids felt, or did everyone in your house spoke and you just learned organically?
Gurjit:We, our dad and mom. Our mom and dad were pretty strict about us speaking Punjabi at home. Yeah, it's like you know, and we didn't grow up with grandparents around like at home, but in our new career family it was mom, dad, and we have another younger sister and a brother and with my dad he'd be like school bitch English. At school speak English got a bitch Punjabi, yeah, but we tried to learn to read and write. Fun fact, we didn't learn to read and write until we went to UBC.
Gurjit:Yeah, and I right, yeah, and it was. I remember my dad didn't ever have the opportunity to go to school so he didn't know how to read and write Punjabi. And my mom my mom is a brilliant woman but she only went up to grade five at school. Right, and she could read Punjabi and she tried. But we would be like me and Ranbir would be like wait, there's four T sounds, but mom, it sounds the same. She'd be like ta-ta-ta-ta and we be like ta-ta-ta-ta and we're like they're both T.
Gurjit:Right, it wasn't until later and this is why I think our classes appeal to so many kids and adults is we take the time to. You know, recognize there's four T sounds in Punjabi and none of the four match the T sound in English. And right away kids go what? And I always say to my students and this gets a laugh because I say how does your nanny, your grandparents, say TV? Do they say TV or do they say TV? And the kids laugh, they're like it's a second one.
Gurjit:And I'm like well, that's because in Punjabi they're used to either placing their tongue behind their teeth or rolling it back. Our English sound is in between the two of them. Now, that's something with our background that you know we're able to learn, like able to teach, pass on so tips like that. It helps gain the confidence in our speakers. Because if you ask these students, why don't you speak, like with your child? Right, and it was the same with our own children, like a lot of people would say to us to see, you know you're teaching Punjabi but your own kids aren't speaking it. You know that and they would say it to us, never to our husbands.
Sunny Lamba:They'd be like you're Punjabi teachers.
Gurjit:And they'd be like you're Punjabi teachers. And then I thought why is it that they're not? And that's where my research focused on, and it was basically about they're not confident and it's about how they're received when they try.
Gurjit:Yeah right and they need these little tips and pronunciation tips Because you know we didn't learn until later that there's really only six sounds that are the same in Punjabi and English. So think of all the other sounds where you have to consciously be making the effort. Younger kids will try anything, right. I think Ranbir would agree. They're eager to try. They're eager They'll pick up language. They can pick up more than one language. Research shows this, studies show this. They can pick up three, four languages before the age of five or six.
Gurjit:But what happens once you are outside of that window and kids start to get a little bit self-conscious? They can hear I'm not making the right sound and then when they see other people's expressions or the comments being made, they shut down. I can tell you that when we started our youth classes, so many students and our youth classes are aged about 10 to 18. So many students would say to us because we would teach them at the beginning and they would say, yeah, our parents forced us to be here for this class, but the other classes we came on our own. We wanted to continue. So we always say to parents you know what? Let us talk to your kids, tell them to give us one chance, and if they don't want to continue they don't need to. But we Tell them to give us one chance and if they don't want to continue they don't need to, but we've never had a kid drop out.
Sunny Lamba:That's amazing to hear, because my son would say that I would have to probably chain him to the chair, sit through a Punjabi class, a couple of things. So you talked about the four types of tea With my son. There's this joke where I'd be like taniya and he'd say dhaniya. I be like Tanya and he'd say Dania. I'm like no, it's not a Dania, it's a Tanya. And then there's in Hindi, dhanya. So there's like three there. And my husband speaks Hindi more Me and him. We both are from Delhi, but my family was more.
Sunny Lamba:You got to learn Punjabi. A lot of Delhi kids, even from Sikh families, did not learn Punjabi. So I speak Punjabi, he speaks Hindi. In fact, his Punjabi got better after moving to Canada. And talking about getting better, I went to school in Delhi, never learned to read and write Punjabi, but whenever we would go to Punjab for summer holidays, my tayaji would be sit and learn. So we would have to sit and learn and that's how I learned to read. But I didn't get better at it until I came to Canada and I joined Red FM as a radio host. That's when I started reading and writing. You talked about age, that there's that critical age, and I've heard that language is one skill that falls into that window of critical age. So there's that age of five to 10. I don't know what it is Is that like? Is it too late for my son now?
Ranbir Johal:Definitely not, yes, that's one of the things we do stipulate and encourage. It is the prime age to learn a language. To be exposed to one is up to five Studies show that pedagogically. To be exposed to one is up to five Studies show that pedagogically. But you can learn it at any age, as long as you're trying and you're practicing. We've seen I myself have had in my university classes students who are in their 40s, 50s, even 60s, some retirees, taking the class and by the time they finish the class they can hold a four to five minute conversation with a Punjabi speaker. Yeah, just simple sentences, basic exchange of information, like you know. But that's something.
Sunny Lamba:Yeah, that's a start.
Ranbir Johal:Yeah, within a number of weeks, you know, within three months, they're able to do that and able to continue with it.
Gurjit:Like Ranveer said, it's never too late to start. It's about are you willing to put some time in, and when people hear that, they think, oh no, I'm gonna have to spend hours, you don't? You really don't. To increase fluency, like we try to put this message out on Instagram and in our classes, it's really only five to ten minutes a day. That's it. Wow, yeah.
Ranbir Johal:Because once you put that timing in the beginning and this is another thing I know in your podcast you talk a lot about the idea of perfection.
Ranbir Johal:You don't have to have a perfect sentence or perfect pronunciation in the beginning. You can start by just introducing a vocabulary word uh, we talk about with our primary kids, we teach them colors and we tell them. Okay, from now on, when you practice uh, or when you want to tell your parents what t-shirt you want to wear, you can say I want my lol t-shirt instead of saying my red t-shirt.
Sunny Lamba:So just adding that. Instead of a whole sentence, you're just adding that one word.
Ranbir Johal:Yeah, and that same thing with parents. Parents feel like, oh shoot, I should be speaking 24 hours Punjabi with my kids, but sometimes you know when you want them to get out the door and they're not moving, or you need to discipline them about something. English is just easier. Well, what you can do is five minutes in the morning, five minutes in the evening, and stack it with another habit, like you're going to eat breakfast, you're going to eat dinner, so you know, five minutes at breakfast, five minutes at dinner. We're going to just practice some phrases in punjabi and then, before you know it, some of it is going to be starting to slide in to your conversation.
Sunny Lamba:Yeah, and I think that's what's happening with my son as well. Now we don't have any. Both set of grandparents have passed when my son was born, even before that, and he went to daycare from the age of nine months. So he's spending his eight, nine hours of the day with everyone speaking in English around him. So he went to day home even before he started talking. His first word was at 10 months and he was already going to a day home.
Sunny Lamba:My husband spoke Hindi, I spoke Punjabi with him and with each other we both speak Hindi, like I speak Hindi with my husband. And then this kid is like 9 hours in a daycare English English. Then he comes home and he had some Punjabi words and then one day I picked him from the daycare. I come home and he looks at the house and he says house and I'm like no car. We always, because we always said car, car aagya, car aagya, and he's like no house and I'm like car, house. And then slowly, duddu became milk and the words started changing because that's what he was using in the daycare whole day. So I digress.
Sunny Lamba:I want to talk about something that, gurjeet, you said that people would say this to you but not your husbands, and this is what I experienced, especially in the Gurdwara. I experienced a few times where someone you know, older auntie or BP, would come and say and they would not say this to my husband, so the judgment number one and number two, it also then kind of blends into that mom guilt, me and my husband were not on the same page with Punjabi. He was like it's no big deal and I was like no, I want him to learn, and that I think kind of played a role in it that we kind of delayed it and delayed it, and then my son was old enough to say nope, not doing it. So that judgment and that mom guilt, I want to talk more about that. Do you feel that as parents, or even do the moms of the kids that come to the assets? Oh my goodness.
Gurjit:Oh, my goodness, did we ever feel it? And I have to let you know. My husband grew up in England, born and raised in England. I'm born and raised in Canada, in my home, punjabi bolo, punjabi bolu, right In his home. He's the youngest of four and he and can you believe it? His teachers told his parents do not speak Punjabi with him. He's getting confused only speak English, and that was research shows. That is not true at all.
Sunny Lamba:I literally heard that last week. So I'm part of a lot of WhatsApp groups of South Asian women here in Toronto and in the GTA and this conversation started. One of the moms said, hey, do you know anyone who teaches Hindi?
Sunny Lamba:She was looking for Hindi and this conversation and a lot of new immigrants who are coming here and they are having their kids in Canada, but they're only in Canada for last, let's say, two, three, four years. They got married and came here and they just have the babies. So many of the moms said, oh no, but if we, because we are from India, if we now speak to them in Hindi, they won't be able to in school it would be hard, and one of them actually said exactly what you just said, that the teacher said don't speak in your language.
Gurjit:Oh my gosh.
Sunny Lamba:And I was like no.
Gurjit:Let me talk to that teacher. In all my research and all of Ranbir's research, it's the opposite is true. We've already covered how up to age five is the optimal time, but you can still learn in Europe. They learn up to three languages here, like you're in, where we like in Canada or in BC, where we are. You have to learn at least another second language, starting in grade five yeah, right, yeah, and my son, language is important yeah language is important.
Gurjit:so, and even with French immersion, we have students in our classes that are in French immersion, that are taking Spanish or German, but they also want to take, you know, punjabi. It's not just because certain students have an affinity for languages. Okay, the other thing I want to make sure of that people understand is we are native speakers. The three of us are native speakers. We grew up speaking it, understanding it. Our children, some of our children, are heritage learners. There is a difference. They did not grow up speaking it fluently. Right, they might not have been totally surrounded by it, like, in my case, my husband, because his parents were so worried that they only spoke English. When we got married, he knew Hanji and Neji, yes and no, and now he took some of our adult classes.
Gurjit:Okay, and he's learning and he's like oh, that's why you say this instead of that, like it never really occurred to him. So that is a big disservice. I think it's. Anybody says that oh no, no, only do English, because they, they might fall behind. That is not true. Learning a language develops different parts of your brain. It helps in different academics and saying, coming back to the guilt part, yeah, like you know, when I would hear it, it would be like this pain in my heart oh, my gosh, I need to do more. I need to do more and I want to say to all the moms out there stop with that. That's a societal thing that they're putting on us. We need to stand up and say you know what, I'm doing the best I can.
Sunny Lamba:Right.
Gurjit:Uh, when I think of like what my mom's life was as a mom. She worked from home, but she didn't have all these other things Like Ranbir and I, working professionals, we did. I did my master's, she finished her PhD while we had kids, while we were married. I remember I was finishing my master's, we were moving, I was on mat leave with my youngest and when I think back I'm like I'm proud of what I've accomplished right and I'm doing my best. It's never too late.
Gurjit:What I would suggest to everybody is don't carry it alone. If that's important to you, that you want to pass on your language, your maboli, to your child, first of all, face the facts, and we always say this to parents after eight weeks or less, your child's not going to be fluent, but they will want to continue. They will know enough. And the other thing I want to go back to is passive learning. If your child isn't speaking, you yourself. Make that habit for yourself. Make a conscious choice. Talk to your partner, talk to you, know whoever lives in the home with you, and discuss that this is our goal for our child. This is important to us as a family. Our child is reluctant to speak, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be speaking it. Our children pick up a lot. You already mentioned that. Your son understands quite a bit, so right.
Gurjit:And the other thing I want to say, and I want to remind everyone it's a First Nations principle. I have this listed in my classroom. I teach grade five, six. Learning takes patience and time. Don't put a timeline on it. Don't put a deadline on it. Don't think oh, in eight weeks my kids should be doing this. They should be doing that. Every child is different. Every learner is different, right child is different.
Ranbir Johal:Every learner is different, right? So, if you think about it, I'm sorry to interrupt. Yeah, I was just going to say everybody is a lifelong learner. You're always learning.
Sunny Lamba:Yes, absolutely I mean, I learned french at like 42. I went to french classes to learn french because our son went to french immersion and I was working for the federal government and I said, hey, french is going to help me in my career as well.
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Sunny Lamba:And now back to the podcast, talking about mom guilt. First of all, thank you for saying that, because I held mom guilt for the longest time, and then a few years back probably a couple of years back I said you know what he understands? We can go to a Bollywood movie or even a Punjabi movie and my son now can understand it without like the subtitles. Why? Because he loves I love bollywood, I love punjabi movies, I love hindi movies and we love movies, and he loves them and he watches them. It's because he understands it completely. So I let go of that mom guilt and I said you know what? He already has exposure number one and he already has comprehension. Yes, he's not speaking it. So one day, maybe, if he has intention enough or some incentive and my son loves to travel so I told him, if you want to backpack around India, you better learn the language. So if he has that incentive, maybe he will start talking to.
Gurjit:He's welcome to join a class and see how he likes it.
Sunny Lamba:Oh, I am so inspired. This is the conversation that's happening today.
Gurjit:I want to just point out that passive learning is learning. Right. If you are feeling bad that, oh, I'm speaking it, but but my child still isn't. I'll give you a story. My youngest is 15 now right, and my mom lives with us sometimes and like she lives with us or in beer's house sometimes, and the other day it's been two years, we've just been. We made a conscious effort in my house and my husband speaks with an accent because he didn't grow up with it, but he still is like nope, I'm gonna try this, i'm'm gonna do this. Imagine my surprise and delight.
Gurjit:I'm standing upstairs and I can hear my son talking to Nani in Punjabi, asking her to make him something to eat. I nearly had tears. I was like this is what I want and he's not. I don't think he's still. He's still shy. Maybe not in front of me he'll say a complete sentence, but now he's starting to say hanji, nan ni dedo or kanaya, or it's coming, it's coming along. So he's feeling like he's in an environment. We created an environment where he knows that he's comfortable speaking it. You have to enlist others. One thing I want to make sure is some some of our students come to us and we ask them why did you stop speaking adults? We have a lot of adults who are like we went to Punjabi school. We know how to read and write, but we're not comfortable speaking. And when we ask them I feel my it pulls at your heartstrings because they're like we get made fun of our pronunciation right?
Sunny Lamba:people will laugh at us.
Gurjit:People laugh at us and that stays with people. And I've had parents come to me and say, you know, I'm so happy my child is speaking. They went up to their grandparents the other day and some parents say, oh, the grandparents are so happy because their grandchild asked. Oh, but she said. One parent said to me you know, my son was trying to speak, he's only seven, and she goes, started laughing at the way he was speaking and she goes. I could just see my child's face falling and she goes, she goes. He didn't do it on purpose. The grandparent is not trying to do, they just find it funny.
Sunny Lamba:So my advice it's not even just funny, it's also like so I'm guilty as charged my son first time when he said something Punjabi like he used to before started going to he would say words, but then something he said and it was so cute, just so cute. So it was not from the intention of making fun of, it was so cute that I just laughed. I'm like, oh my god, you know so cute, yeah. But corrected myself right away and said oh my gosh, I'm not laughing, I'm just smiling. So, like you're so cute, I love it, love it, love it. Let's say the kid is speaking and of course, accent, no problem. But let's say they're saying it wrong, or you want to correct them and try to not laugh at them, of course. Or say, oh my gosh, you're so cute, because even at this age my son is going to be 13 in January even if I say, oh my gosh, that's so cute, that's self-conscious.
Sunny Lamba:You know that teenage years they're like oh, I'm not exactly for teenagers. So how do you give them feedback when they try?
Gurjit:There's two things here. One is if they're going to practice with others, you have to give the other people a heads up, okay? So Ranbir and I, when we were creating these classes, we said that it's very important that we and in our packages every week we have weekly classes. There's one learning intention per week and we say to the parents if you have people that are helping your child learn, make sure you let them know what the learning intention is this week. Is it that they're learning colors? Is it that they're learning to form a sentence, right? The second thing is how do you give a child feedback? In our classes we call it hamburger feedback. The reason we do that is you start with something positive that they're doing what is this thing you want them to continue to work on, right, that you're working on together and then finally end off with a positive comment, so that the child shouldn't feel crushed oh no, I did it wrong. You want to empower them.
Gurjit:So if I were to give you an example, let's say the learning intention is colors and the child is learning colors, and they come to you and they say, oh, I want to wear my chukta sweater. But let's say they mispronounced chukta. Maybe they said chukta. They didn't have the correct tongue placement right. So you could start with like saying oh, wow, you're using your Punjabi. I love how you're using your colors and remembering you know all your colors, well done. Remember what your teacher showed you last, in your last class. Or remember when we're saying you have to roll our tongue back right, but end off positive. I'm so proud of you and you should be proud of yourself because you're remembering to speak on your own Shabash, something like the same.
Sunny Lamba:I love that, I love that and I do that with my coaching clients all the time. I call it the same thing hamburger.
Sunny Lamba:I call it the sandwich feedback same thing, same concept, and I'm also part of Toastmasters, which is a public speaking platform. And same thing it's the sandwich. You start with something positive and then the main thing that they need to work on or room for improvement, and then you end off with a positive. So I love that. I know some of my coaching clients are hearing. They're probably like, oh, that's what she's done with us.
Gurjit:It should come naturally and as a parent, you have to practice that you really, really do, and that's something I think. That is like what I always say to parents that's your homework and if you want to listen in on our classes, that's the nice thing about being on zoom is the parents. They might be in the kitchen and listening so they can hear what the focus is for that week, right.
Sunny Lamba:Okay. So, ranbir, I have a question for you. So we talked about the feedback, we talked about that, we talked about mom guilt and everything. I want to go a little bit more into that. Mom guilt, but also judgment, have you because you are the one who mentioned in the beginning that you were trying to teach your kid and there was that pushback and have you felt that that someone was judging you? How do you handle that? Because I have many times where, oh, I have to tell you a very funny story before I ask that question. So we were in Mexico and a lot of time we Indians, we look like Mexicans. So I was talking to my son in English. We're in Mexico and this local guy comes and he's like he starts talking in Spanish. I'm like I'm sorry, sorry, no Spanish. He's like you didn't teach your son Spanish.
Sunny Lamba:And I'm like, oh, okay well, guess what I'm not Spanish and, yes, I didn't teach my son my own language, much less Spanish. So it's not just in our culture, it's like it's happening everywhere as well, so have you felt that mom like judgment from others, and how do you handle that?
Ranbir Johal:oh, definitely, um, it's funny too. Um, my husband is born and raised in india. Actually, and I know when I, uh, when I go to india, uh, when I would go with my kids, the people would be, uh, my husband's relatives would be, um encouraging and they'd be like, oh wow, you're born and raised in uh, canada, but you still, you know, are so connected to your punjabi language and and your kids still, you know, they might not speak, but they know some words, they're very encouraging. I find that they're so much more judgmental here. Yes, and maybe because it's that immigrant mentality about, oh, we're away from our country, we need to stay connected to our roots, so we put more pressure on ourselves and on our fellow neighbors and so on. So, yeah, definitely, when I'm here, I feel it, and especially because they say, well, your husband's from India and my mother-in-law lives me and only speaks Punjabi, so your kids should definitely have, you know, picked it up. But you know, there's so many things that you throw into the, into the pot, into the dynamic.
Ranbir Johal:Uh, when my children were younger and even now you know they they had other issues that they were struggling with, like especially my elder son, so I had to take a back seat, you know, step away from, you know the focus on just the language so heavily and just focus on other things with him. I mean, if I'm going to discuss things like anxiety and mental health, you know, uh, with him, I'm going to do it in english, where he understands everything, rather than trying to force the Punjabi in there, right? Yeah, and I know I felt judgment, not just with whether I taught them or not. I felt judgment about my own Punjabi and it took me a long time to get over that because to this day I speak with an accent, a bit of an accent, and I know when I was younger I had to go to speech therapy because it was hard for me to pronounce many sounds Like so would be the ro would be wa. So I went to speech therapy for English and now my English is pristine, but you didn't have speech therapy for Punjabi then, right? So over the years my pronunciation has definitely changed, improved, but that little bit of that accent is still there.
Ranbir Johal:And people there will be sometimes judgment like, oh, you're a Punjabi teacher but you speak with an accent, and, and I love. But you know what? Now I love that about myself because as a teacher. Yeah, it's something that I can share with my students and say hey, don't worry about how you're pronouncing it, because the ultimate goal of language is what? Communication? Yeah, if somebody can understand what you're trying to say and you can understand what somebody is trying to say, then you've met your goal.
Gurjit:Yeah, our mom loves to say god something yeah, right, yeah, some journey idea. Yeah, I love it yeah, and that's, and that's something we keep in mind, yeah so I want to talk to my listeners for a moment here.
Sunny Lamba:I know a lot of you probably are right now, just like me, totally convinced that your kids need to go to punjabi pathways or something you're. You're more let's say, you're more inspired to make it a commitment, even if that just means speaking more at home or that means encouraging your kids, or maybe that means enrolling them in a program. But I also know that a lot of my listeners are Hindi speakers. So for you, I want you to say that maybe Punjabi Pathways is not the place for you, but I hope this conversation has inspired you and you will find a way that your kids can learn their native language.
Sunny Lamba:Number one, number two mamas, let's forget that guilt. Let go of it and say hey, you know what the person who's judging me, that's their problem, that's their perspective. I know what I'm doing and I know my house, my family, what works, what doesn't work in my family the best. After saying that, tell me about Punjabi Pathways. You already told me it's an eight-week program. You have a youth program. You have for little kids as well. Tell me more about it.
Ranbir Johal:Well, one thing go ahead.
Sunny Lamba:I'll speak to the primary.
Ranbir Johal:One thing about our primary classes is we have our certified teachers, but there's always two teachers per class because Bilubaji is automatically our second teacher.
Sunny Lamba:He doesn't just make special appearances.
Ranbir Johal:He's there. He's participating with the students, playing games with them, singing songs with them, because that's how you're learning games with them, singing songs with them, because that's how you're learning. Yeah Right, bilupaji and the teacher will carry on conversations with the children, but they'll also be playing games, yeah, and singing songs with them.
Gurjit:Okay, yeah, I have to say Ranveer needs more credit here. She's come up with a lot of really cute songs that Bilupaji sings that you'll see on Instagram as well.
Sunny Lamba:I love the say the good day.
Gurjit:No, it wasn't say the good day, she's come up with so many, and not only sometimes when you pop into these classes, because we used to teach them ourselves. But now we've got so many teachers and all are certified and amazing teachers we have. I can't say enough, like Ranbir, and I always say we're the foundation for our program. Our teachers are the heart of our program. They really are. We wouldn't have gotten to where we are without them and we always tell them that. But if you go on there, the teachers will then see they're trained and for primary classes they're only 25 minutes once a week and sometimes these kids, if they're on their way to a soccer game, they're in the car on their tablet or on their phone because they don't want to miss a Punjabi class, but it's so cute.
Gurjit:The other thing is that people are meeting kids are meeting kids from all over Canada and North America, even England.
Sunny Lamba:We even have classes. All these classes are all online then.
Gurjit:All online, yes, and then like for the youth and adult, I'll speak to that. We know we teach the way we do in our public school and we have things like interactive online games, kahoot. Not only do our youth students up to 18, ask for them, the adults get pretty competitive too, right, it's a great way to review. Our adult and youth classes also come with a package and parents always say to us well, will you give homework? I have to laugh. I'm like the homework is 10 minutes a day. You're supposed to be speaking Punjabi. Ranbir has done an amazing job of breaking down the rules, the grammar rules like, for example, my kids were like I don't know, do I use Khanna or Connie? Uh-huh, right, and then we have to. And because one of the things I want to point out, punjabi and Hindi and a lot of languages 40% of the world's languages have gender right, yeah, they're gendered languages Sanskrit and French and German, and.
Gurjit:Spanish English doesn't.
Gurjit:Yeah, english does not. So this is a hard concept. So we break those concepts down, so you're in a student package. You'll have all the lessons. It'll break down the rules or the grammar rules for the week, and then we also have a section where we go through and say, okay, here, translate or try these. And we say to them when you're trying these, don't just write them out, right, please make sure you're saying them out loud. And finally, at the end we do also have like dialogues, because in my research, when I was doing my master's research, I was like why do these kids, why, why are they reluctant? Imagine going up to someone and saying and they don't know much about the language, like Spanish, like you said. And they said well, no, you've had a lesson now. Now speak to me in Spanish where do I start?
Sunny Lamba:what do I say next?
Gurjit:so we give them sentence starters. So we say, okay, in your 10 minutes, if you want, just practice this conversation with somebody. And it's always nice because at the end and week eight we always have like a final project and we make it fun. And you know the goal is to have the conversation. I always go back to that, the conversation.
Sunny Lamba:Yeah, okay, so where can people find you?
Gurjit:We're on Instagram, at Punjabi Pathways, on Facebook, at Punjabi Pathways. We're even on TikTok, but I got to get better about putting things on there. We do have YouTube as well, where Ranbir has recorded some songs with Billupaji, and, of course, our website, wwwpunjabipathwayscom. That is where you can find registration.
Sunny Lamba:Our fall session. Yes, that was what I was going to ask.
Gurjit:Our next session is October 8th and it's, like I said, eight weeks, so we will take registration up until then. You can find all that information, including pricing, on there. We offer four sessions a year and we try to follow the regular school calendar. So if you're registering for the October one, you will be done by the end of November, because we all know how crazy December gets, not just you got to remember, not just for the parents, but for the teachers too. We're teaching, we're regular full time teachers, right? And then our next session starts in January. It ends usually by spring break, and then we have another one after spring break, and in the summer we usually do a condensed version because people have a bit more time. And in the summer we usually run one in July for four weeks. So two classes a week.
Sunny Lamba:That is so amazing. So usually at the end of my podcast I do a rapid fire, so I'm going to change it up. I usually do a rapid fire asking questions, but since we're talking about Punjabi, I thought I'm going to throw random words. And you can say that in Punjabi.
Gurjit:Oh, you're testing us, ranbir, you might want to.
Sunny Lamba:Okay, go for it I literally just grabbed a book from my table here and let's see what comes up. Okay, okay, okay, ranbir, magic Jadu, okay, learn.
Ranbir Johal:Six. Oh sorry, we're going.
Gurjit:It was Gurjeet's turn right. It's okay. Whoever comes to it, okay, yeah.
Sunny Lamba:Okay, ranbir, paper Gagas. Oh, look at that. I was like what is paper Gurjeet four? So number Char yeah, sleep, soul yeah, today, aj yeah, you guys are doing amazing.
Gurjit:I feel like you're covering all the words we do in our classes, except for magic. But you could say our classes are jadu, right?
Sunny Lamba:Yes, your classes are jadu, where you learn numbers, number four. Yeah, okay, this is a tricky one. Imagination Kaupana. Wow, ranbir, you're good, I didn't have that right away. Thank you, tanvaad, tanvaad, we started with that, true, okay, last one, last one, last one. What should I do Mine, mera, mera or Mary, sorry.
Ranbir Johal:Mera or Mary. That's right. Mera or Mary.
Sunny Lamba:Shame on you Talking about gender. The other day my son came to me and said, look, mama, I am so patli and it was so cute. And you know that's when you know like I laugh and I'm like, oh my gosh, you just used the word and he always he doesn't say patla at all, he always says patli and moti, everything is mama. This book is more tea and Mama, I am Patli, Like it's always the E, like the female gender.
Ranbir Johal:So we got to still work on our gender, but I have like when you were talking about gender.
Sunny Lamba:I'm like yeah, the other day he said Patli.
Gurjit:It was so cute. On our Instagram, I've made a post that talks about how to figure out if it's Patla or Patli or all those. You can check that out.
Sunny Lamba:Yeah, and it could be easy for someone like my son, who learns French and he knows this. I was going to say yeah because when I talk to him, I'm always like, I'm like okay, so is this one law or law Am I using?
Ranbir Johal:law Am.
Sunny Lamba:I using law. Yeah, that's the famous French. Thank you, so so so much blast talking to both of you. This is the end of our podcast. Please find them. I will share all the links in the show notes. I can't wait for this episode to come out and I can't wait for your next fall session to start. I know a lot of moms are going to be looking forward to these classes. So thank you so much. And, on that note, this is Sunny signing off. Until next time, keep loving yourselves and stay Flauthentic. Thank you for listening to the Flauthentic Me podcast. Did you relate to something or had an aha moment? I would love to hear your thoughts. Connect with me on Instagram at Sunny underscore Lamba. You can also sign up for a newsletter so that you can get weekly tips and tools. Until next time, keep loving yourself and stay Flauthentic.